Keep it Greek.

[Tom Earp]

This thread is to discuss Greek Social/Service or other related organizations.

[petehsiung]

True that. Speaking of which, that reminds me when I have spoke with a guy yesterday at a sigma chi senior annex I was at. On the topic of greek when I asked him questions regarding what "college" in terms of academic reputation, college experience, program and opportunities did he look into about 4 years ago, he sure did amaze me in why he turned down some top notch schools such as University of Michigan ( one of the best yet toughest in the midwest) and instead came to KU, tho he is from California. Especially his reason he told me was about how greek life up at U of Michigan sucked in comparison to KU. Given what he really told me, I was not impressed about that message at all. I could be wrong but his message sounded like he didn't care about education and learning but wants to party That did turn me about how he would like live on his parent's back and expect that they pay for him to get wasted and party while he doesn't have to work much???

Honestly if I were to go back and had to really choose, greek life in my college decision would not be a factor in my decision at all nor should it be ( I mean unless you have a family who went greek and its a important family tradition). In fact I do not really care at all whether or not the greek life up there like sucks, is minimal, marginal or not the best. That doesn't matter tho of course at the same time if greek life is like the only main source of social life ( like Ole miss, U of Illinois), I would want to avoid it. Rather what matters is the education and academic quality and opportunities that are make or break deal breakers. college decision should be about what provides them the best academic quality in what they study ( as not all of them are equal in terms of quality, resource), opportunities to become better, extracurriculars, resources, the best college experience and opportunities to do outside the classroom whether it be jobs, internships and such and social scene lastly. Its more of a logical decision.

Its amazing to me how some students base their decision due to greek life ( assuming all thing are equal). I mean some students are morons, want to go their and party yet get good grades. ANd of course just because they have like a 4.0 in high school doesn't mean they should abuse their education and waste big money for that. Just like in one of the post: "my job is going to the dogs", I agree " People are morons. People don't want to work but get paid big bucks"

What do you think?

[Tom Earp]

Peter, this SX guy is to funny!

One needs to look at both sides of the coin in choosing a school.

1. Academics
2. Greek Life

But, I am sure he found in joing a GLO, he found that they were not just all partying, but what GLOs expect it turned to a lot of interaction withing the school, charity events, sports, and grades.

One can not be myopic to how one school works and another doesn't. Each one is as different as we as individuals are. I think you have found that out in your quest.

[petehsiung]

WHile we may or may not expect academic and greek life to mix together ( which I view academia and greek life separately, here is a book that is written and published by a University of Kentucky professor Dr. Alan DeSantis. In this book, Greek U, he discusses fraternities and sororities and what the nature of it is. Although I have read parts of it, I would definitely take that intellects book with a grain of salt as it could contain biases.

After I have learned and read about who he is, he seems as students claim about him through ratemyprofessors.com review that he is a glorified fraternity brother who also has the intellect and intelligence as well. Pretty rare combo and a rarity among professors isn't it? Not to mention my exp tells me as much as some other people's experience that many academics are either indifferent about it or against it. I know one thing for sure when I have spoke to some of my professors before, I hardly feel confident even bring up that topic to him or her.

FOr those who heard about the book and the author, what do you think? Comments?

www.uky.edu/~addesa01

Some reviews from www.ratemyprofessors.com from students about Dr Alan DeSantis:

"If Greek life, drinking at Two Keys, and slapstick humor aren't for you, then neither is this class. The test is all memorization, and you retain absolutely nothing after you've regurgitated it for the exam. He cares ten times more about his reputation as a "cool" professor than he does his students, or his so-called intelligence for that matter."

"Desantis is, in a nutshell, a glorified frat boy. If you have a mind of your own, the class will make you want to take a power drill to your temple. I wrote one of the papers in 15 minutes and got a 96, but if you don't memorize the test EXACTLY, then you wont do well. He's a weasel. And his jokes make me want to punch small children. HATED it"

"Such an easy class if you're good at memorizing lots of info. Desantis is incredibly rude in person, though he may come off as funny in class. Probably one of the most useless teachers I've had, the TA's do all the work. If you're in a frat or sorority, take it because you'll like Desantis. If you're a minority, spare yourself the frustration."

"I liked his class. He's a great teacher and it's evident he really loves what he does. He cracks jokes quite often and brings in personal life into lectures, which I really thought was cool. Not gonna lie, though, the tests are tough: straight memorization of his slideshows. I would recommend him and I wish I could take him again."

[petehsiung]

One needs to look at both sides of the coin in choosing a school.

1. Academics
2. Greek Life


I disagree with that a bit personally. I believe that greek life ( unless it happens to be a oppressive or dominating force to the point where they don't have much outside of it) should not really be considered too much of a factor ( or a dominating factor). Though I have some support, I see it as a minor factor in some cases. In a nutshell at the end, many employers, law schools and MBA programs won't care about the "strength" of the greek life nor would they take that into consideration.

What matters the most at the end- how well they did in comparison to the standard and avg grade of the school, where there undergraduate school reputation stands, or prestige per say and the strength of the program.

So it goes with saying that after all, if the greek life is weak or marginal, then so be it, it doesn't matter nor should it matter. How I see it is this

1.) First ,foremost: academic standing and how well known and strong they are, the quality of the learning, research and opportunities and stuff (thats the real deal breaker there)

2.) opportunities: how much options do they have, programs to develop them and things to do outside

3.) best college experience : traditional one with plenty of diversity and stuff where they will be able to challenge themselves and broaden their view and expand and get the real world experience.

Though I agree that everyone is different in terms of who they are and what they want, lets really keep in mind in a typical traditional college ( u mich, ohio state, u of wiscon, u wash, u conn and other top state schools esp some in the north ) where they have a dominant yet balanced focus and priority on academics and research along with athletics, many students in my experience hardly or don't think much about greek life before coming to college. So from what I could see, to judge it based on greek life as a "dealbreaker" sounds really unusual and odd tho if its a family tradition, might be understandable. Even though I understand they provide networking and connections, greek life shouldn't be one of the "dominating" factors or a "dealbreaker" at all.

After all, in terms of how "strong" the greek system is, how much does it really matter at the end when it comes to jobs, internships and post undergraduate?

[Tom Earp]

Peter,
what you must remember is that you are 20 years old. You are transfering from KU to OSU! The people are different as is the GLO system.
So, you can never generalize between the two schools or total Organizations.

You seem to generalize among many things as we have chatted. Your scope is to narrow to make a judgement! You must live and learn about the school and the GLO system.

Now upon transfering, you will find a totally different world with students and GLO life.

If nothing else, all schools and GLO life will be different.

[petehsiung]

Okay well I will retract some bit of it (just like I remember how you made the bonehead comment in one forum regarding professors but long time ago anyway). I agree as everyone is different- its just after all, I just really view it really differently.

But still, how much should the "strength" or "influence" of the greek life matter whether its strong, moderate or marginal or weak? Again employers, internships, MBA and law schools I don't think take that as a factor at all. Even a marginal greek life personally as I would "guess" from what I could see doesn't have a single effect whatsoever in the long term.

[Tom Earp]

Being a Greek can effect your business life. You will never know who you may talk to and who may be a member of a GLO.

A fellow Greek member will be more apt to hire a GLO member over a non GLO as they know the training you went through while an active member.

The key word is training! You as a GLO member learn how to manage many aspects of business life and that is what they are looking for.

[Tom Earp]

Well, our member Peter has transfered from K U to O S U. What a big move for this young man.

So far he has been in contact with several National Fraternities and am waiting to see how he fairs.

Also member TCarson has designed a new C of A for the local he and others are starting at SUNY Marrionvil (?).

I want to wish them both a lot of luck in their new ventures!!!

[petehsiung]

Yep in fact, here is a update.

- Just came back from TKE having buffalo wild wings with them. Thought of them as pretty cool, diverse group of guys with a variety of personalities. So far they seem pretty good, well rounded while at the same time unlike some previous one, at least they don't seem too sleazy. Possibly might return.

- At DTD, had plenty of fun playing poker game. At first I won a lot but after a while which ended my game, I lost them all. Overall good guys yet at the same time, some were kinda nerdy in a way. Though I have to admit that what did kinda ruin my night there was that the guy, as he had heard from rumors thought I carried a gun? to another chapter house? I mean man, did have to think as though its really a false accusation. You thought I carry a gun? Especially I mean after all if he thinks that I don't belong or am not a good fit, I'd rather be told that or take offense to that. However after explaining to him about the misunderstanding, there was understanding as though we got it cleared, tho he definitely tried to tell me to get out at first. But after I got it, felt pretty unsure and did not feel too much of a connection. Esp that rumor did make me feel awkward. Overall fun poker game yet didn't quite hit me well at least now. Tho I may return and see.

As time goes by after visiting one chapter last sunday, I have decided that based on what I saw contrary to what I have thought, I want to check it out even further. Especially so far after that party, in spite of the people in there, I like the idea of greek life of what they do, tho kinda on the fence. Now that Im done looking at them and basically doing my best cutting down the list of the chapters I am visiting, I kinda find it difficult to decide which one, esp after I have only been to one event of each. At this point as my list goes down, I might find it harder to go to newer ones. With schedule conflicting over another as they happen to have it at the same time, thats the hard part. Especially when I go to one that happens at the same time as another, I do unfortunately sacrifice my time for the other one when I want to check it out.

Until then at the same time, I am basing it on my guts and my mind to see and think as a way to determine whether or not I am comfortable with them. If interested, then I plan to go back to more of their events based on my guts. After all don't like to house jump or jump from one house to another at the same time. Hopefully by next week or kinda so, I will have a idea down to like about one to two, possibly three.

WHile then, tomorrow is greek informational night about fraternity chapters where there will be fraternity chapters there . Especially while I am kinda feeling fuzzy about them here , definitely a good time to find out more and learn more information about it to hopefully make the best decision.

[T J Gordon]

sounds quite simple...go with TKE If you hurry you could make it one of the 5 RLCs coming up in Feb... I think I'll bat at the one in Indianapolis (so I can see our new HQ) if I go to one

Good luck on whatever you decide though

[Tom Earp]

Peter,
as you and I talked, take the time to go to a number of GLOs to visit. Some may fit you and some may not.

T J is funny but what he says has a lot of truth to it. If you find a large GLO such as LXA, TKE, or any others, it also depends on what the local chapter is like as you will spend your time with them until you graduate.

But as an Alumni such as T J, Mike, Dekeguy, and myself you can expand yourself through them and meet other members and who may also give you networking for future jobs and contacts.

As T J said, good luck and hope you find a home!

[petehsiung]

Yep while I am finding my home, unfortunately and fortunately got bad news Got a email from one chapter this afternoon informing me I am not fit , esp based on who I am. Given my personality and the guys I have met, I knew that the chapter did not click with me, which was pretty consistent with what he was thinking. Yet there was a silver lining, based on what he knows in his experience and assuming he gets the idea of who I am, he recommended several chapters, 4 of them, which 2 I thought of, 1 I have scratched. The other two, tho I really don't know much, definitely worth checking out: Sigma phi epsilon and Pi kappa alpha.

[T J Gordon]

Definitely within a Nat'l, from chapter to chapter is different. You have to pick the best fit for you.

I'm impressed though that the individual took the time to recommend other fraternities on campus that he thought would be good for you.

Enjoy yoursef while you decide. The fraternity will give you great experiences in operation of a small business etc, if you are an ACTIVE member. Along with the experience, you'll have a great time and make life long friends. You definitely want to feel comfortable with the group when you say yes.

I'm looking forward to your updates and seeing which you actually select (and why).

[petehsiung]

Yep as I have been suggested and told by other chapters- check out the other chapters, I intend to check them out and depending on gut, go to the ones often I feel interested in with connection. As time goes by while I am visiting and comparing as many chapters as possible, Im getting a clearer and more solid idea of what my priorities are and what I am looking for. While then here are my updates from last night:

Fraternity informational fair: LAst night at the student union was pretty busy with chapters showcasing and promoting who they are to people as they walk by. As I walk by the tables of them promoting who they are, some chapters I saw that I have never thought of are ATO- alpha tau omega and pike-pi kappa alpha. Talking to them, I have let them know what I am looking for and my past experience and asked them questions regarding what are the chapters strength and stuff. After talking to them, dropping in my contact information, I have seemed to have found some connection with what I am looking for in one and hope to be contacted perhaps by ATO and know their recruitment schedule.

PDT:DIdn't think much about it until I got over some of the reluctance I kinda had. After spending my time in the cold snow looking for that chapter house, thought according to the events that there was going to be a poker game inside the house. Yet apparently not as I have been told by the rush chair inside who I was led to by the house mgr, it was rescheduled. Nevertheless in spite of nothing, took time to ask and find out and let them know my priority of what I was looking for. As I have found out contrary to what I thought before ( which I thought they'd be boring by their facebook picture and profile), they actually seemed like a bunch of fun, excited and cool dudes who are involved but laid back instead of like involved world-beaters who are kinda competitive. Even so as I have found out, they are also well rounded as I have found out, they don't have a single area they specialize in. Better yet as this one I am looking for- they also have diversity within many states, such as I heard one from California, another one from Florida and others which I don't recall. Though as I truly admit, I have found out by experience and kinda nature, I am big on leadership (involvement on campus) and service (philantrophy and community service).At the same time I am not crazy as far as I do my best to diversify myself as well. Physically when I was inside, the house seemed kinda as though it could definitely use some cleaning. Overall good chapter which from what I could potentially see, worth checking it out even further since that night I have only met a few people without a event which makes it hard to know exactly what it is.


ASP: By nature and from what I saw, it happened to be a small chapter of no more of around 20 people. At first came in and watched TV, thought they were something I was thinking at first. Wasn't until I met the president who without even asking me what my name was, he actually knew ( by photographic memory from what I could tell from facebook) who I was since I have friended him on facebook.As I have learned, a transfer student from a school in ohio as well. Also met this other guy , a member who I think are both good friends who by pleasant surprised facebooked me as he also got information passed by that president. Nevertheless in a nutshell, fun guys who were laid back, chill and like to have fun. At the same time, the chapter is in the process of being established fully as they have recolonized last year. Overall, fun and small yet homely.


WIth those two in mind, got some insight between a large chapter and a small chapter. THough I don't quite get what the difference and benefits are. Speaking on campus, I wonder what are the pros and cons of a small chapter and a big chapter?